Should nudist places be hosting erotic events in order to get more young blood?

[justin g]

i think your trying to attract the wrong type of nude people by having an event like that... they should try more things like having a charity nude volleyball tournament or something like that or clothing optional and see if  that works... maybe?

[Professor]

I think its moot point all around. Its based on the assumption the young people will want to swing. But I would bet good money that they still wouldn’t get young people if they appealed to sex fervor but crusty horney old people and various other weirdoes. I agree also about what others have said, such an environment would be dangerous for kids and a club/resort couldn’t have it both ways. It would have to be a sex club or a nudist club, mixing the two is a recipe for disaster.

Such superficial appeals to “young people” is never going to work. Have anyone of you ever joined an organization just because they had “foos ball” or stickers or game night or something equally trite? The whole perspective is condescending. Attention should be placed on attracting sincere and intelligent men and women who would be willing to speak their mind.

[I4Ree]

I would say Pageants are ok, like the one's in the 60' and 70's..

This though? http://www.nudes-a-poppin.com/nap2010new/ YUCK!  Bring your camera!!! 

 

[Cooper]

Very bad idea. If clubs want to attract more young naturists, as far as I'm concerned they should just open a club in my area. That would get at least one more young naturist in, ie. me, lol.

I don't know how clubs/resorts/beaches etc. in the US work compared to the UK, but here in the UK, I reckon it would be enough just to put on more local events and have more permitted nude beaches, relax anti-nudity laws I suppose (as far as I understand the confusing legal situation in Britain...), better promotion, have events at different times on different days to allow as many interested people to be involved as possible, have more events like swims and sports, nightclubs etc... anything that a young person already does when he or she is clothed, in other words.

Thinking that the young are just attracted by erotic events is just so crude IMO, it badly misses the point of sincere naturism. And the sincere naturists are the ones that we need. Counter-productive move. 

[rc]

tha nudes a popin was just awful its nothing but being naked in front of creepy people and thinking its fun

[Noodie]

I don't know how clubs/resorts/beaches etc. in the US work compared to the UK, but here in the UK, I reckon it would be enough just to put on more local events and have more permitted nude beaches, relax anti-nudity laws I suppose (as far as I understand the confusing legal situation in Britain...), better promotion, have events at different times on different days to allow as many interested people to be involved as possible, have more events like swims and sports, nightclubs etc... anything that a young person already does when he or she is clothed, in other words.

Well, the thing is, virtually all of the clubs in the UK - the genuine ones, at least - are member-owned and run. So, it tends to be the case that the events they do host are geared towards that membership (which is inevitably rather older, for the reasons already discussed further up the thread). They really aren't geared up, owned, run, or designed in such a way that it's possible for them to put on massive events programmes. Certainly not for non-members or non-BN members, in any case.

Some of the larger ones do hold more 'open' events. I'm thinking particularly of the Merryhill Music Festival. And lots of them host YBN events - which obviously cater to younger people (16-30). We had an amazing time again at Telford last weekend for YBN's 10th Birthday Celebrations (despite some unfortunate incidents with jelly and a bouncy castle covered in suds...). Telford's always fantastic as it has a 'younger thinking' membership, a wonderfully cheap and well-stocked bar (I was shocked to find that the price of my cider had increased to £1.10 this year - SHOCKED!), and is always able to put on a good disco in the night.

But away from stuff like that, it's a case of trying to get commercial venues interested. We have the Alton Towers event, for example, but such things are always going to be exceedingly expensive and that is also, obviously, going to provide a barrier to getting young people in. Nudefest is a lot cheaper (held on a campsite in Cornwall each year) but doesn't, to my mind, have much for youth... There was a completely open event at the Eden Project a few years back too which, although good, was expensive.

I think the main reason that most clubs fail to attract a younger demographic is simply that they don't have many young members. Young people come in, see everyone's over 50, and wonder what's there for them. Bit of a catch-22 situation... until you have lots of young members, you won't get lots of young members.

There's a debate to be had about how much openness is desirable and whether that would attract more people - especially younger people - to become members. Personally, I like that the naturist community is (generally) fairly closed... i.e. you have to make some effort to join a club, or join BN, rather than just turning up and waltzing in. It keeps most of the creeps out (though, admittedly, not all). You certainly don't get some of the less desirable things that happen on beaches happening in the clubs. But I can see the other side of it too... I can see that people need to have a chance to see whether this lifestyle really is for them, before they make any sort of commitment to it.

Anyway, I agree with everyone else in the thread about hosting 'erotic' events. There are certain clubs in this country that profess to be naturist clubs but are really anything but. It's very unhelpful to genuine naturists who don't want their lifestyle to be associated with those sort of goings on. I don't think that younger people are really that interested in 'erotic' events anyway though. More likely to attract leering older folk. Which will actually put younger people off - especially girls. Leering is already the number one complaint from my female naturist friends. It makes them not want to return to some places. Invite a load of guys in and tell them it's OK and, well, you'll end up with one very old, very male, crowd...

[NaturistsByNature]

Anything sexual should be kept to private lives when it comes to a nudist atmosphere, least in my opinion. From what I've gathered, the nudity that comes from nudism is supposed to purely be a natural sort of concept and not a sexual one.

This is not to say there aren't going to be times where nudism is subconsciously associated with sex, but its one of those things best left for personal households and out of the eyes of the public

[papabare]

I don't see how that will attract young people, have you Seeeeeen the majority of swinger out there?!? Pretty much the same demographic of naturists, over 40 is Much in the majority.

I agree with everyone else, it's a bad bad thing and I would be Very hesitant to bring my kids anywhere near there.

[ci2006j]

Two great things that don't need to be associated together!  There are so many opportunities for sex already and the culture is oversexed as it is.  Naturism/nudism is a totally different philosophy and doesn't need sexualization to bring in younger people.  Having a site like this and expanding interest to local groups of younger people who love nudism for the nudist lifestyle is the way to go.

[Baseballfan]

    NO  WAY !   bad pr is hard to overcome.

[Angel]

No, a BDSM event is NOT approprate for a family nudist resort.

[DoctorManhattan]

Just wanted to post some stuff to shed a little bit more light.

The bdsm club is Equus Eroticus, heres an excerpt from their website.

Words from Ponymistress
Equus Eroticus provides a respectful community platform built with the intention of bringing the worldwide spectrum of all that is pony together in one, inclusive herd. Equus Eroticus commits to quality production and member support, true to the vision of the original creator, Paul Reed, and the expectations of its devoted readers. The arena provides material supporting pony play, pony players, and those who admire us. The purpose excludes networking in the traditional sense, typically expressed on the Internet, with the hopes of inspiring collaboration. Equus Eroticus continues to provide pony play resources, promotion, and connection through devotion to presenting pony play exclusively.

The greater mission of Equus Eroticus is to build bridges between the leather, BDSM, D/s, M/s, fetish, and alternative sexual lifestyle communities outside of our own particular niche, as well as to promote education and enhance communication through pony play, supporting freedom of expression. May quality intent, action, and familial community build both the pony community and the greater surrounding communities through the joy of pony play.

Welcome to Equus Eroticus,

The Ponymistress

Here's the Equus Eroticus original ad for this event

San Francisco Bay Area Fox Hunt
Invitation by Smashwolf (or Smashfox in this case...)

The proposed date is September 17-19th, 2010 at Lupin Lodge.
http://lupinlodge.org/

Activities:
This new Fox Hunt is structured more like a mini-vacation
or retreat with real amenities, and accommodations available. We'll start
Friday afternoon, with play space all night, Saturday the hunt will start after
breakfast, and then lunch, after that more hunting, or play. The play space is
available after dinner all night, and all day Sunday. We'll be packing up at 3
PM Sunday.

I would also like to invite anyone interested in presenting on animal play or
related subjects on either day. Whatever you have to offer, be it a class, a
workshop, a demonstration, etc. It'd be nice to have some variety of activities
besides the hunt itself.

The Facility:
We will have a large indoor heated play space, outdoor play space, camp space,
including cabin and yurt rentals, two hot tubs, a pool, showers, flush toilets,
plenty of paved parking, RV hookups, the works. The hunt will happen on top of
a wooded hill behind the camp. There are graded paths that should not be too
steep for cart pulling, and cars can drive up to the hunt site and park.
Sleeping in vehicles is permitted, arrive early to get a level parking spot!

Costs:
All lodging, and food costs would be handled through the Lupin Lodge front
office. I am going to try to have Lupin handle event registration fees as well.
It's going to cost us about $20 a person in addition to their pricing schedule
below. Basically, plan on about $20 plus whatever combination of lodging you
want below. The $20 is going to go towards expenses of getting the play space
set up, some rentals, and the miscellaneous materials and supplies as well as
the cost of the additional rental of the play space itself. the bare minimum
then, if you jsut showed up for the hunt and daytime activities on Saturday,
would be $45/person.

Their full service restaurant will offer both meat and vegetarian selections for
the meal plan. Continental breakfast, which includes coffee or tea, juice, and
muffin, is included in all overnight packages. A full breakfast will be
available for those who wish to purchase it.

Camping
$60.00 per person 3 days, 2 nights/$125.00 with meal plan
$30.00 per person 2 days, one night/$95.00 with meal plan
$15.00 per night additional charge for RVs requiring electric and water hook ups
Yurts
Single -Two Nights $160.00/ $225.00 with meal plan

Couple -Two Nights $220.00/ $350.00 with meal plan

Single - One Night $80.00/ $165.00 with meal plan
Couple - One Night $160.00/ $290.00 with meal plan

Cabins

Single - 3 Days/2 nights $260.00/$325.00 with meal plan
Couple - 3 Days/2 nights $320.00/$450.00 with meal plan
Single - 2 Days/1 Night $130.00/ $195.00 with meal plan
Couple - 2 days/1 Night $160.00/ $ 290.00 with meal plan

All overnight prices include access to all Lupin's facilities, and continental
breakfast served in the restaurant.

Daytime only
9:00 AM - 6:00 PM
$25.00 per person
This price includes access to all Lupin's facilities

Meal plan - $65.00 per person 2 lunches and 2 dinners, including a gratuity for
the restaurant

SATURDAY, MAY 22, 2010

This is the article I think the OP is talking about

Lupin Lodge in Erotic Lifestyles Controversy
In the last week there has been a buzz on some Internet discussion groups about Lupin Lodge in Los Gatos, California, and the fact that two erotic lifestyle groups were planning on holding their meetings at the clothing-optional club.

Equus Eroticus, a pony play fetish group, posted on their website plans for a "hunt" based at Lupin for September 17-19, 2010.
We will have a large indoor heated play space, outdoor play space, camp space, including cabin and yurt rentals, two hot tubs, a pool, showers, flush toilets, plenty of paved parking, RV hookups, the works. The hunt will happen on top of a wooded hill behind the camp. There are graded paths that should not be too steep for cart pulling, and cars can drive up to the hunt site and park.
Equus Eroticus also claims that all lodging and food costs would be handled by Lupin, and that they might also handle the erotic party registration fees. Their website lists all of Lupin's rates as well as a link to the resort's website.

Another erotic lifestyle group, Masters and Slaves Together Santa Clara County (MAsTSCC), announced that Lupin is their new "home" and were planning their first get-together at the venue for May 23, 2010.
Lupin has graciously offered free entry from 5pm to 12 on site for anyone attending this meeting. Come up early, enjoy the pool, walk in the hills, have dinner at the restaurant (opens at 5 pm), maybe a swim and then attend the 7-9 pm meeting before either pulling out the toys in our yurt or heading over to the hot tubs to enjoy the open sky...Lupin is open and aware of our group, has all their permits and has been around 78 years- we are welcomed with open arms, and hope that your time with us will be a warm, loving environment with leather folk and M/s friends.
There is no mention of these activities on Lupin's website, and they have not responded to my emails seeking further information and clarification. MAsTSCC has also failed to return my messages. Lupin also carries The Naturist Society logo on their home page, and TNS has also failed to respond.

AANR had the following official comment:
I was made aware of these various groups just this week, I did look at their websites and found the content very disturbing. The most disturbing was that these groups had planned on “ambushing” Lupin Lodge and AANR.

I immediately called the club and spoke with the owners, I also sent them any information I was able to find. Of course they were shocked and very annoyed that this was about to befall them, they are very proud of their family-friendly, non-sexual resort.

They thanked the AANR office for catching this, and assured us that there would be extra security at the gate and in the resort. These groups will be turned away and or ejected, and will never be welcome at Lupin Lodge.

Thank you once again for your email and for confirming the intent of these groups.

Sincerely,

Terry Justice
Club/Member Liaison
While the lifestyle groups claim that Lupin is welcoming to their members, AANR is claiming that the owners of Lupin are "shocked and very annoyed" and will turn these groups away. Without further information it's unclear if these visits were arranged with the approval of someone at Lupin, or if it truly was an "ambush" as AANR claims. When asked if MAsTSCC was "lying" when they claimed they were welcome with "open arms" at Lupin, Terry Justice did not respond.

Lupin has a very clear statement about overt sexuality at their resort:
Parents can relax knowing that the others in our family environment share their concern for the inviolability of all children. Harassment of any form is prohibited by club agreements. And no one is likely to witness a discomforting situation, for we share a common ethic that the joy of sex remain a private matter between consenting adults. Public eroticism and sexual exploitation are not acceptable at Lupin.
If anyone has further information about these planned activities at Lupin, please email me at nudiarist@gmail.com.
POSTED BY NUDIARIST AT 5:04 AM
LABELS: AANR, BDSM, CALIFORNIA, EROTIC LIFESTYLES, LUPIN LODGE, NUDIST RESORTS, PONY PLAY
2 COMMENTS:


Here is a response to this article


 insomnia said...
As someone who is both a nudist, a member of the LGBT community, and a member of the BDSM community, it seems to me that you are overlooking both the practicalities involved in running a sustainable resort, the local community standards involved, and the possibility that it's entirely possible to maintain a family-friendly environment and still accommodate some of the needs of the BDSM community.

Just because these resorts are "family-friendly", that is a far cry from saying that adults don't regularly have consensual sex on their grounds. Rather, they have it in private, behind closed doors, which is as it should be, frankly.

The people at Lupin are like anyone else in a similar position in this very difficult economy. They're trying to keep afloat, and serve their community. And due to changing times and demographics, that community is also changing.

The local nudist/naturist community in the S.F. Bay Area reflects the changing nature of what families are nowadays, which includes many people in the LGBT community, which, of course, can mean gay, lesbian, transgendered, or even polyamorous family units... and yes, according to our local community standards, many people in the BDSM community as well.

My question to you is this... how do you differentiate between hosting "erotic lifestyle" events, and hosting social events geared towards the LGBT community? Indeed, if you knew much about the local LGBT community and its close ties with the BDSM community, it would be very, very hard to separate the two, even in large public events.
http://people.tribe.net/rig_daddy/photos/e05a41fe-01d1-4deb-864e-17934d6a6782

Is there really much of a difference between hosting either community, so long as the area the public has access to at the time is a sex-free, family-friendly environment? How do you differentiate hosting BDSM events from hosting other events that Lupin might hold, such as for Burning Man or raves, which have traditionally been associated with various levels of illegal drug use... and why aren't you trying to demonize them too?

The people at Lupin are trying to stay in business, so they can keep serving their community. A community, mind you, that is likely to be fundamentally different than your local community, and that likely has different community standards than where you live.

Frankly, they don't owe you any apologies whatsoever. What they do need to be certain of -- and what should be your entire concern in this matter -- is not banning people from their business, but maintaining the standards they've always maintained, with suitable restrictions designed to maintain the public space as a family friendly area, at least by our local standards.

Instead, a lot of the attacks I have seen on the internet discussion groups have been childish, prudish, reactionary, and irresponsible. Perhaps you should consider speaking out against that as well, as they aren't just insulting people who are sexually different than the norm... they're insulting large numbers of people within your community, and demonizing many of its members, like those who run Lupin Lodge, and who work every day to try to keep a good thing going for EVERYONE.

Seriously... do you *really* think either they or people in the local BDSM community want to have people engaging in inappropriate sexual behavior in front of children? Did you ask about what precautions were being taken, rather than trying to get these events shut down entirely?

Frankly, I'm very disappointed in how you handled this matter.

JUNE 2, 2010 8:58 AM
 Nudiarist said...
insomnia,

You are not a regular reader of my blog. I have no problem with Lupin or anyone else marketing to LGBT or BDSM communities as long as the resort rules are adhered to. My problem here is with AANR and Lupin who are not telling the whole story here. I believe that Lupin marketed to these erotic lifestyles groups, but it backfired when these groups posted on their websites that they would have "play" areas available to them. I also believe that AANR put out it's statement in an attempt to quash any controversy.

It's a reality that nudist resorts need to expand their horizons. Please understand that I personally support your lifestyle and have no problem with having you at a nudist resort, as long as you adhere to the posted guidelines for behavior.

JUNE 2, 2010 4:55 PM

My thoughts

I think I agree with Insomnia,

  This resort says its open to anyone as long as they obey the rules. How do they know the organization was going to break the rules?

Derek

[cc]

No that will give the wrong impression.

[cabding]

Agreed

[papabare]

I am glad Lupin is against this and will be kicking any group out that publicly has sex-play on the grounds. I Loved Lupin when my daughter and I went a few years ago while I was in San Fran for the week. We can not have sex-play of any type in public places, be it straight/same sex/pony/bdsm/whatever. It is a naturist resort, not a swingers club.